Or, should it be re-labeled what I've concluded it really is ... an insidious form of government?
I've got a lot of problems with Islamic faith, starting with it's the only 'religion' which fails to profess the Golden Rule (do unto others ...). Oh yeah, there's a lot to condemn, but there's your foundation. Some folks take exception with the permission granted Muslims to blatantly lie to anyone not of their faith. I've got major problems with that as well ... starting with ... If you're a Muslim, I know (with an absolute certainty) that I cannot trust a single word you say. But, go back and think about the Golden Rule, and you'll see why I find That to be the foundation of everything wrong with Islam.
I've got a lot more to say on the subject, but I'm gonna stop right here and open this thread for comment and discussion.
I don't think that Islam is a religion at all, but rather an ideology that includes religion in its tenets. It encompasses law, government, religion, culture and business. That doesn't sound like a religion to me. Though it does sound a lot like a cult to me. It is the end all, be all of those who adhere to it.
Beware the man who has one gun, he probably knows how to use it.
Doug, I agree with you, to me from what I've seen and read, Islam was and is dedicated to the slavery and total control of Women and to promote Pedofilia and Violence. ETA: That's True Bunny!
Last Edit: Mar 22, 2015 19:56:39 GMT -6 by Deleted
I think Islam is definitely a Faith, and Government is simply the natural evolution of how it is pursued today.
I use comparisons in a limited form here, but it isn't unlike the Catholic Church prior to reformation and other major shifts over the years. At one time, Kings answered to the Pope or they wouldn't BE Kings for very long, and that was true across a good number of European powers. If one looks into the whole story of how the 'Church Of England' came into existence, it is a very clear example of the power of the 'old' Church.
The difference, of course, is that The Church did go through more than one period of major internal and external reform, which really turned it into something quite different today than it was known to be for most of its time in existence.
If Islam moderates and gains the confidence to stop trying to convert everything on the planet (AHEM...not like Christians EVER had the 'convert or DIE! approach..right? ), then the billion or so followers may be downright decent folks.
Of course, it may be another hundred years or five hundred before all that happens and things find a balance in life.
The problem I have with Islam is that it absolutely refuses to evolve. All other major religions did and science and civilization progressed. Not so much with Islam. I know early Islamic history has all sorts of scholars, but a large percentage of them were converts (forcibly maybe?).
Look at any majority ruled islamic country and you will find a totalitarian government. Even Dubai, Bahrain and Indonesia. You will also find a ruling class and the rest in poverty. Whether it be Shia, Sunni or whatever derivatives of those you find, you'll see the same thing.
Individuals though may vary. But as the saying goes, "Always treat the people you meet with respect and courtesy, but always have a plan to kill them."
Beware the man who has one gun, he probably knows how to use it.
@wrabbit2000, Ah Yes, The Religion of Peace and Love,,,,,
Iraq's Christians persecuted by ISIS
More than 125,000 of Iraq's Christians have been forced to flee the homeland they have lived in for nearly 2,000 years because of ISIS violence and threats link
The Religion of Dominating Women and Legalizing Pedofiles!
That extreme wing of the Faith is murdering Muslims who aren't 'the right type of Muslim' by their thinking, as a gentle reminder. The ugly face of the dark side (or what is growing to be the only real visible side) of Islam isn't something I think 'The Prophet' would recognize. I think he'd kick Al--Bagdhadi in the balls just before cutting his head clean off, to use as a soccer ball. :) (those old time guys really were as colorful as they were brutal at times...and I could almost see that).
Is Islam having a crisis within itself, for extremism? Err... That could be another Captain Obvious moment for observing, as we'd both agree at the minimum. However, there are roughly 1.3 billion individual people who follow the Muslim faith in the world today.
We'd better pray....to everything or anything we think my listen and care...that Islam is not, as a WHOLE, how the extremism would show it. A LIKE MINDED group numbering over a billion wouldn't simply succeed on a regional scale, but have a damned good chance of winning a global conflict without much question of outcome beyond time taken to get there.
The problem I have with Islam is that it absolutely refuses to evolve. All other major religions did and science and civilization progressed. Not so much with Islam.
I don't think an Islamic evolution is possible ... especially when you've got a group re-forming the Caliphate under the old dogma. I forget who it is, but there's some MSM always touting how ISIS has killed more Muslims than anyone else. Thing is ... they're right, but only because they can't get to those they consider their truest enemies conveniently.
The 'cult label' you penned in your first reply. Some illiterate dude came out of a cave with the word of Allah. Too bad no one challenged what he had to say like that Mormon thing (okay. repeat what you translated verbatim.). That a billion people are enrollees makes it no less than what you named it.
The problem I have with Islam is that it absolutely refuses to evolve. All other major religions did and science and civilization progressed. Not so much with Islam.
I don't think an Islamic evolution is possible ... especially when you've got a group re-forming the Caliphate under the old dogma.
I think you are actually correct, but probably not in the way you'd most appreciate agreement for. Is Islam capable of evolution? Well, of course it is. It's designed by the hand of man, for the ear of man, to control the deeds of man. Just like the rest of the Faiths. It can certainly evolve.
How much time, over how many bodies will that take?
I agree with you simply because we are the 'We demand it NOW! ..or next week at the VERY latest!' generation for expecting results. Islam may well require the pain and shock of a caliphate within the modern world to force the quiet majority to get off their prayer rugs and pick a side for their OWN survival, as well as everyone else's. That's where history recorded on events that haven't happened yet....may very well show this takes a century or more to fully sort out and settle down.
Post by dirkgently on Mar 22, 2015 20:47:12 GMT -6
When you have predominantly Islamic countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan having a death penalty for burning a Koran, it's no longer "just a few extremists" but a dangerous political ideology embraced by a massive population of people.
I don't think an Islamic evolution is possible ... especially when you've got a group re-forming the Caliphate under the old dogma.
Just like the rest of the Faiths. It can certainly evolve.
Sorry if I misquoted your post. Not up to speed with this method yet.
Islam can't evolve because that is blasphemy. The hardliners will take your head for even suggesting it. There's a reason for division (Sunni and Shia spring immediately to mind) ... but ultimately ... there can be only one. And, there are lots more heads going to role before that day comes.
First, I have to note that it takes a real special brand of stupid to see this as some 'dark' mission or unclear intent. What part of their own very open statements has been hard for those in media to comprehend? If it qualifies as idolatry, blasphemy or a distraction to the submission toward the will of Allah? It is forbidden. ISIS is following a new twist on the purified (craziest) fundamental form of Islam, just like the Taliban tried to build a single nation on. Of course, the world wasn't exhausted and war weary back then...and everyone (but ISIS) is now. Good timing on their part. Doom on everyone else, at the moment.
Still....they couldn't be MORE clear about their intent ..and yet, even those living in their path and natives to the area don't run, not quite fully believing it is what it is until its too late to run. It reminds me of the Nazis as much as other armies of the past for the disbelief casual murder and brutality is met with, and consistently too. (A lesson in there somewhere.....perhaps something to ponder more on)
These extremists are a growing perversion of Islam, and not the true face of a billion people. (We'd have already lost this war if that were not the case, by math alone). We're also fighting along side and dependent on Muslims who don't consider themselves having anything in common with the extremist animals (and I do NOT mean Iran....which is just choosing a pot over the kettle)...and who, themselves, will be killed in very creative ways if ISIS ever takes the small Gulf states.
Wrecked my last attempt at quoting so this'll have to do.
I don't see ISIS perverting anything. They are purists. And what do purists eventually get around to doing? Purifying.
If you want to truly know Islam ... look to these extremists. The Koran is pretty darn clear, and they are following it to the letter.
To the theme of this thread, and what Doug so clearly articulated, Islam isn't Just a religion. FWIW, I don't see Scientology as a religion either. Both of these groups have established themselves as 'governing' bodies over their membership and the followers behave like your definitive cultist. There may be moderates on the roles, but they're as much the problem as the head-choppers and the picketers.
If either group put me on their dance card they'd find I'm well versed in the all the required steps.