Hmmmm 7/39 I think that I may have been tripped up for a second. I too love the 10/22, it was my first rifle at the ripe age of eight years old and received plenty of beatings over the mishandling of that firearm.
But...both the 10/22 and Garand are semi-automatics and as such do not fit the criteria that I have laid out.
Now mind you, if said items are bought and paid for by law abiding citizens, then they could very well be a gold mine for time of financial distress. After all, I'm not asking citizens to give up what they already own, but rather make future purchases that much more difficult. See where I am going here?
This could be a win-win for all.
Beware the man who has one gun, he probably knows how to use it.
I am thinking every city should have a law saying we need a firearm preferable at the minimum an AR15 chambered with a combo barrel that fire 5.56 or .223 or if your wallet is big enough get a .308 or 7.62. Although S&W has them for about $1200.00. Practice and training should be the law, with affordable ammo. We need to be able to protect our cities and homes from the evils of the world.
The magazine size is insignificant if you practice fast reloads and set yourself up for speed. Specially for handguns, but some of the rifles take a little fiddling to get that mag to catch. But practice makes perfect. I would personally like a 100 round drum that actually works for those roving gangs I suspect will show up when the SHTF. I figure a little AR500 around a couple of windows and adapt some shooting positions from those and viola' roving gangs will be stationary bullet stops.
You just can't beat an AR15 for an all around utility rifle capable of so many things. They can be chambered in many calibers, in many configurations, and are obviously excellent killers and hunting weapons.
I think you need to reasses your position because one day you may need one.
Remember Marlin, this is the DA forum and I am taking a contrary stance to my normal one. Hence the disclaimer.
But anyways, back on topic. Can you seriously believe that the once great U.S. of A can model themselves and citizens after Switzerland or Israel in todays age? That dawg don't hunt. The country is too divided. That actually may make things even worse than they are now.
I'm not asking that any laws be passed, just make some things prohibitively expensive. Those that legally own them now can later make a nice profit by selling what they have to a law-abusing citizen if they need the money.
It's all pretty simple really. A those who do own firearms will become even more proficient, spend less on ammo and have family heirlooms that will last for generations.
Beware the man who has one gun, he probably knows how to use it.
Hmmmm 7/39 I think that I may have been tripped up for a second. I too love the 10/22, it was my first rifle at the ripe age of eight years old and received plenty of beatings over the mishandling of that firearm.
Although I got my first one at the same age, it was nothing so fancy. It was a Stevens "Springfield" model 15, single shot, .22. Even worse, it was so old that the chamber had swelled slightly, and you had to claw the spent shell out with a pocket knife, so no rapid-reloads. It wasn't much faster to shoot than a flintlock, ergo, I had to learn early to make those shots count. There might not be time for a follow up shot. On the plus side, it was a real straight shooter. I could drive spent shell casings into fence posts at 30 yards with it. "Tack driver" comes to mind. The rear "sight adjustment ramp" for the first several years I had it was just an old wooden match stick. I got fancy a few years later and bought an actual replacement ramp for a quarter. Not bad for a gun I gave a buck and a half for because it was "broken".
But...both the 10/22 and Garand are semi-automatics and as such do not fit the criteria that I have laid out.
Did I miss something? I thought "semi auto" WAS the criteria! Would it help if I said my 10/22 has a protruding pistol grip, a flash suppressor, a bayonet lug, AND a detachable "high capacity ammunition feeding device that protrudes significantly from the action of the weapon"? Is that evil enough for ya? No? How about if I add that the stock is black, and phenolic resin?
This is all hypothetical, of course - that describes my LAST 10/22, not this one... but it could happen!
Now mind you, if said items are bought and paid for by law abiding citizens, then they could very well be a gold mine for time of financial distress. After all, I'm not asking citizens to give up what they already own, but rather make future purchases that much more difficult. See where I am going here?
This could be a win-win for all.
I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop, as in "now about that ammunition...", making the "gold mine" aspect considerably less.
Post by dirkgently on Apr 13, 2015 18:50:35 GMT -6
I would never personally endorse this position, but if I were to have an issue about this, I would have several firearms and not have any of them registered, uh. . . I mean documented. Yeah, they'd not be illegal. . . they'd just be undocumented.
But then again, I'm not someone who ever has anything to say about this issue.
I am thinking every city should have a law saying we need a firearm preferable at the minimum an AR15 chambered with a combo barrel that fire 5.56 or .223 or if your wallet is big enough get a .308 or 7.62. Although S&W has them for about $1200.00. Practice and training should be the law, with affordable ammo. We need to be able to protect our cities and homes from the evils of the world.
I guess we all have varying opinions on stuff. Have you ever fired an "assault rifle" in 7.62 NATO on full auto? I have - a G3 at one point and an FN/FAL at another. I don't guess the CETME counts, really, as that's just a poor man's G3 as far as I'm concerned. "Hammerin' the hell outta ya" is one aspect, but the more problematic one was muzzle climb. they haz it. A lot. They don't have the weight of , say, an M60 to hold 'em down, and they point skyward in no time, wasting all that perfectly good ammo. For my money, any "AR" configuration ought to top out at around .243, max (or another "intermediate" caliber - the Russian 7.62x39 qualifies, because it doesn't have as much smoke behind it. 30-30 would probably be ok for assault rifles, too). Anything bigger ought to be heavy enough to be a SAW or an LMG... or, more likely and more properly, a sniper weapon. One shot, one kill, no wasted ammo. I beleive the Brits actually got it right when they converted their FALs to SLRs - "Self Loading Rifles", AKA "semi automatic".
No gripe with the "every man has to have an arm and practice with it" concept, though - it stood us in good stead during the militia era of US history. Still does in Switzerland. They have gummint issue weapons.
The magazine size is insignificant if you practice fast reloads and set yourself up for speed. Specially for handguns, but some of the rifles take a little fiddling to get that mag to catch. But practice makes perfect. I would personally like a 100 round drum that actually works for those roving gangs I suspect will show up when the SHTF. I figure a little AR500 around a couple of windows and adapt some shooting positions from those and viola' roving gangs will be stationary bullet stops.
Don't forget to sandbag those windows - and blow a couple mouse holes in the walls for rapid position changes! Beirut U had a great education in such matters! If you're gonna be there a while holding off those roving gangs (mutants optional), you might want to invest in some "tank traps" (they're not just for tanks - if a tank has a hard time with 'em, so will a sedan or a pickup truck!) or ditches to hold 'em off a bit - makes it easier to draw a bead on 'em when they're not climbing in the window with ya!
You just can't beat an AR15 for an all around utility rifle capable of so many things. They can be chambered in many calibers, in many configurations, and are obviously excellent killers and hunting weapons.
I think you need to reasses your position because one day you may need one.
Well I Like 'em, and YOU like 'em, but they're not for everyone. Some folks just naturally want to employ a different strategy, and that calls for different arms some times. You are correct about the overall utility of them - anything that will kill a man will also kill a deer! Gotta watch those game and fish laws, though - in WV, .223 or 5.56 either one is illegal to deer hunt with. As far as I know, they are legal in VA, and in NC I was shocked to find that there was NO caliber restriction - you could deer hunt with a .22 long rifle there if you wanted to when I lived there.
Last Edit: Apr 13, 2015 19:17:31 GMT -6 by Deleted
I would never personally endorse this position, but if I were to have an issue about this, I would have several firearms and not have any of them registered, uh. . . I mean documented. Yeah, they'd not be illegal. . . they'd just be undocumented.
But then again, I'm not someone who ever has anything to say about this issue.
I'm tellin' ya, man, a wee little home machine shop is just the ticket for those "undocumented" metallic thingamabobs! Not that I'd ever actually consider building one, mind you...
Do you want some machinists drawings to get the shop up and running? Strictly utilitarian thingamabobs, I assure you!
Last Edit: Apr 13, 2015 19:19:43 GMT -6 by Deleted
As research material only, I might be interesting in them for purely academic interests.
Well, yeah! That's the only reason I would have such things laying around - historical archives and such. I don't even have access to a machine shop, much less one of my own. Anything like that would be old, anyhow - do you recall something from around 1979 or 1980 called a "Sidewinder" 9mm experimental bullpup thingy? yeah, THAT old!
You shoulda seen what some of those desert rug rats in Darra, Pakistan could do with just a file and a vise... but who the hell has that kind of patience when there's TV to be watched?
Sorry, I got distracted by a family phone call. Now where was I? Oh yea...being a Dirk...er...I mean Dick.
You are right right. A 10/22 and Garand would be excluded as they are semi's. I would say that ammunition would be exempted, after all, who really need more than 500 rounds unless they are a competition shooter. I found, before my knee and back went out, that 3 gun comps were pretty fun and competitive, but it was the other comps that tripped my trigger. (Pun intended)
Trick shots (Those are tricky...pun intended again) Long Range shots.
If ammo wasn't impeded (which I didn't call for) and normal standard forearms weren't either. What's to complain about?
What is the deal with having a weapon that has a high capacity magazine? Why is it needed. Is your neighborhood that rough? If so, move. Do you fear the NWO? If so, then get a grip.
Why is it such a big deal to many to own a AR or AK series weapon? Is it a status symbol?
It really doesn't matter to me, but some would like to know.
Beware the man who has one gun, he probably knows how to use it.
This is Gary Moore and Phil Lynotte (Thin Lizzie) - two of the finest guitarists ever produced by Ireland. They came of age in a war torn Ireland, and know whereof they speak. Before we get all gung-ho flag wavin' patriotic take back the country, listen and consider. War at home is an entirely different critter than going to one thrown overseas. Oh, the blood and guts and body parts and smoke and mud and fear are pretty much the same - those are the same for ANY militaristic entanglement one gets into...
The difference comes when you realize it's your OWN high school sweetheart getting rearranged. it's your OWN parents, kids, cousins, friends etc getting disassembled. It's your OWN country that will never be quite the same.
This second one is particularly poignant. It cuts to the chase, and maybe the bone.
It's all fun and games until someone you ate mud pies with as a kid gets an eye put out... or a head blown off.
Wild Frontier - Gary Moore
I remember the old country They call the emerald land And I remember my home town Before the wars began
Now we're riding on a sea of rage The victims you have seen You'll never hear them sing again The forty shades of green
We're goin' back to the wild frontier Back to the wild frontier, it's calling Back to the wild frontier We're goin' back, back to the wild frontier
I remember my city streets Before the soldiers came Now armored cars and barricades Remind us of our shame
We are drowning in a sea of blood The victims you have seen Never more to sing again The forty shades of green
We're goin' back to the wild frontier Back to the wild frontier, it's calling Back to the wild frontier Back to the wild frontier, it's calling
Those are the days I will remember Those are the days I most recall We count the cost of those we lost
And pray it's not in vain The bitter tears of all those years I hope we live to see those days again
Now we're riding on a sea of rage The victims you have seen You'll never hear us sing again The forty shades of green
And I remember a friend of mine So sad now that he's gone They tell me I'll forget As time goes on
We're goin' back to the wild frontier Back to the wild frontier, it's calling Back to the wild frontier, we're goin' back
Back to the wild frontier (Can you hear it callin'?) Back to the wild frontier (Can you hear it callin', callin?) Back to the wild frontier
Those forty shades of green are calling me back home
Ooh, we're goin' back, back to the wild frontier I'm goin' back, back to the wild frontier
Last Edit: Apr 14, 2015 16:39:45 GMT -6 by Deleted
Hey now, take a look at the Saiga 12 and tell me the Russians can't make a real nice street sweeper. (grin)
They do simple pretty well!
They do simple VERY well - there is only one thing I can think of that would stop an AK, and I never saw it happen - that would be a dent in the gas tube that would prevent the piston (and therefore the bolt) from cycling.
They're built loose as a goose, and will eat dirt and keep burping... but that looseness can adversely affect accuracy, too.
I haven't fired a 7.63 or .308 in full auto, I really see no point in it. You're wasting ammo. I am more interested in having additional distance when I want it. I have enjoyed a number of 3 gun matches in my time, and many many, combat IPSC matches. I was lucky enough to only play games and never had anyone shooting back. It did make me very proficient in gun handling, and shooting skills. All of my weapons were competition quality for match purposes and custom built to meet those needs. I have built steel targets from plate racks to poppers, air assisted reset system, and shot in matches all over the US. Now I am just an old man that wishes I could keep up with the kids today in the fast and accurate business of shooting.
I have been lucky enough to shoot with the very best in the world and call a few of them friends. This is the place in the world where the laws concerning firearms really hurts.
It's people like Doug that want to restrict magazine capacity, bullet type, and firearm type in the name of safety for the public. Once someone in the government and Doug realize you can't legislate morality this will change. But we all know the Doug types aren't after protection and safety of the public, it's for safety and protection from the public. They need to control us, and impose laws based on greed, while they pander to minorities for the vote. To stop a revolt they need control and to remove weapons from the hands of citizens so only they will have them.
THe US has roughly a 90% firearm ownership making it the largest standing army in the world.. The Obama's, Clintons, and Doug's are in for a surprised when they use the registration information to pickup these firearms from the largest standing army in the world.
And if dirkgently, is interested in Machine Tools without a numbering system I can help in one particular model with two hundred and twenty three diameter bore frames whittled from a solid block forgings. Minus the numbering system of identification of course. Just don't tell Doug he will rat us out. lol