@solarius,your right it has a nasty stink to it it's way more than what us average people can comprehend there are alot of things that we are not told because the agenda would be catastrophic if the people knew there own government turned on them I feel that the people that should get full disclosure are the family's and any one willing to do the research to understand the situation there are so many well how about and this and what about that that the story is almost unswallowable.
It needs to be kept alive, someday the people in power will no longer be around and maybe the truth will come out, but if the people let it go then its history will be written by the people in power perpetrating these scandalous acts forever, while the future citizens remain ignorant of the truth. Just my take.
Maybe at sometime we will start a free fall discussion. Then if your tin hat allows for space based weapons that can cause interestingly convenient earthquakes, the whole 911 thing takes on a different appearance. But thats pretty far out there. But I am up for it..
One only has to look at bldg 7 to start the money trail and ask how it came down in the first place.
I personally believe the White House knew 9/11, or something like it, was coming. I don't think they knew where or precisely when....as even the hijackers could have made late changes.
I think they did what FDR did in 1941. They let nature take its course without interference, and then had the full response pre-planned for when it did.
......The terrorists tried the WTC with a truck bomb in 1993, so a repeat attempt wasn't a tough deduction, IMO.
Hey Jude. I'm not sure there even needs to be much discussion of Free-Fall, for the three towers that miraculously fell at free-fall speed that day, is there? LMAO!!! roflmao
Knew from first time saw pictures of it ..... along with all to familiar with the skeletons in uncle scams closet .... just stay out of the discussions as the brainwashed masses still convinced the "official story" is true .... ( better luck talking to trees than getting them to accept and understand theyve been lied to and played for fools )
Hey Jude. I'm not sure there even needs to be much discussion of Free-Fall, for the three towers that miraculously fell at free-fall speed that day, is there? LMAO!!! roflmao
I think the free fall discussion starts with, how does a person or a group of people get enough explosives into a building unnoticed to create a free fall event. Secondly how do they go unnoticed drilling the necessary structural columns to insert the explosives, and without removing doors, their frames, windows, cross supports etc. to make the buildings fall perfectly straight down. Lastly how many people would this have taken to get the necessary work done quickly without being noticed. Mathematically what are the chances two of the same exact 116 story building would fall perfectly straight down?
This discussion isn't whether they free fell but how is it possible it could happen without someone noticing there wasn't intervention by a group to make it happen. The video played by architects with a time display in the frames as the buildings came down proves they free fell. But proving two cars crashed isn't the object, the dented fenders do that, proving the responsible party is another problem entirely.
I am always open minded about this topic, and have been involved in discussions with several firefighters that claim it's possible from the burning jet fuel which is nothing more than a better grade of diesel. But the conversation stops when I ask why then does the steel used during construction melt and distort at a higher temperature than that of burning jet fuel.
So when you can answer the simplest of questions as to how they could free fall without some serious conjecture, then I will be interested in the free fall discussion of how two identical 116 story buildings fell 32 per second per second without prior interdiction from a secret group of people trained in demolition of skyscrapers.
I normally refrain from the 9/11 conspiracies forums. After so many years of working with explosives and flame fuels I can see the science behind the Twin Towers coming down. But BLDG 7 is another story and that is where I find things to be extremely hinky. Could there have been another plane possibly that was supposed to crash into that one? And that particular suicide squad decided against it?
Firefighters were walking the floors of that building hours before it crashed.
I know that this particular conspiracy theory is rife with conflict, and that is why I stay away from it. I can see most sides of the many theories as well as debunk the more outlandish ones, such as the hologram scenarios.
But nothing really explains BLDG 7.
Beware the man who has one gun, he probably knows how to use it.
I normally refrain from the 9/11 conspiracies forums. After so many years of working with explosives and flame fuels I can see the science behind the Twin Towers coming down. But BLDG 7 is another story and that is where I find things to be extremely hinky. Could there have been another plane possibly that was supposed to crash into that one? And that particular suicide squad decided against it?
Firefighters were walking the floors of that building hours before it crashed.
I know that this particular conspiracy theory is rife with conflict, and that is why I stay away from it. I can see most sides of the many theories as well as debunk the more outlandish ones, such as the hologram scenarios.
But nothing really explains BLDG 7.
I have to agree completely some people just seem to run wild, where I would at least like to discuss some specifics. So whats your guessimate on the pounds of explosives to drop both skyscrapers into a free fall condition? Building 7 is the place that was doing the Enron SEC investigation. The interesting thing to me is some folks making fun of the terrorist training not to land, but to fly. I have a friend thats a pilot and the first thing he said is "wow they were good". Why? They went in with the wings at about 45 degrees impacting additional floors. He said that would be hard flying a say 180 MPH between other building in down town NYC. It just never occurred to me. I know nothing of explosives, but I have a friend who is an expert, and he has fallen off of the radar as of late. He is retired SF and of all the hours we spent together it never came up. There were other questions pertaining to that time but never about the buildings.
But it seems to me it would take a truck load or two, to do a controlled demo of two 116 story buildings. It would be hard to hide that let alone the amount of construction noise to make it happen. Just my thoughts anyway. You are right about building 7 how does one explain that?
@marlingrace, While it does take a significant amount of explosives to bring down something like the Twin Towers, it really isn't as much as you would think. But I don't buy that theory either. The signature of a controlled demolition is obvious to anyone who has experience in large scale construction. Hell, they show it on the news so many times that the average viewer could see it. It's a sequenced event.
Beware the man who has one gun, he probably knows how to use it.
The pancaking was a designed feature of the construction of those buildings. I recall seeing an older documentary in that long ago time before the towers fell, about those being made. It was pretty impressive really, going into the near stop-watch timing of trucks for the period of the construction with a whole lot of other trivia. The Mafia knew how to run a tight ship, if nothing else, and for who ran the city when the towers were originally built.
It's almost a miracle they worked as designed though. A million little things about the configuration of the floors and damage of impact, since all that was calculated, could have thrown off the pancake and had quite a mess up to 1,000 feet across lower Manhattan. Exactly what I recall they'd been aware of trying to avoid the possibility of.
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The angle at least one of them hit a tower at was interesting, but I don't know that it was good skill.
Skill and true choice of impact point would have been much lower. The lower, the more effective, actually. It isn't like they intended to have anyone leave the buildings alive, and I don't believe anyone who had been above impacts ever did. I understand flying through the chaos of air currents that a big city like that would have around high rises would play a factor. They sure weren't trained to barn storm downtown skylines in flight school.
That plane may have been as close to largely missing, if you imagine that correction at a hard angle, not happening. Oh if only that could have been a moment of dumb happening. The plane was gone the moment it took off, but a side-swipe may not have seen that building drop.
There are I think the number is up to about 2000 petition signing architects & Engineers that would be willing to argue the point of pancaking source, including one of the original architects source. As you can see from the plan set that is posted online source the outer column supports would have to give away perfectly each and every time without the slightest amount of sway in any direction.
From the time a B24 crashed in to the sears building in NYC every skyscraper has been designed to take a airplane hit.
Umm... Pancaking isn't so much a theory as a literal, physical description of what 10's of millions watched in live action.
One floor fell into another, in sequence, from the couple floors directly below active fire, right to the bottom and clouds too thick to see the final crash. I've not seen floors out of direct sequence failing, further down or inconsistently with the vertical collapse.
We can call it something else if people prefer, but the building did systematically collapse in the vertical order gravity determined, amazing, almost perfectly, straight down.
Some day, enough people who saw it that day, in person or just live on TV, will have faded and the theories will include the towers not even failing the way we directly, eyeball on, watched them fail. At the moment tho...all those shots and people to recall seeing it are around to support that what we watched is what was witnessed that morning.
I dunno what happened behind the scenes, but the best demo men in the world would be near supermen to coordinate one, 1,000 foot tower to drop into it's own footprint with explosives. To have two drop ..and particularly with such profound damage before the drop, and the last one after the first fell direct next to it?
Well, that would take FAR more blind faith to accept than even the full official story ..which I don't buy at face value either.
This one is only 500ft but does this look familiar? This to me looks exactly like WTC falling and it's the landmark tower in Fort Worth Texas, and why obviously people think it was a controlled demo. The similarities are spooky. The idea of pancaking being a design feature in a documentary had to be disinformation, it doesn't even pass the common sense test. If something happens on the top floor and it collapses the rest pancake and everyone in the building dies? This doesn't make anymore sense to me than a group of people having enough access to the WTC buildings long enough undetected to install enough explosives to bring them down controlled. At 116 floors and needing say 6 sticks of explosives thats almost 1400 sticks for both buildings. Seems unlikely to me. But hey 4 black unmarked vans could probably manage it...
I'm not trying to be difficult, but there is a core, fundamental, physical difference here. That building did what I figured it would do when I first saw the Youtube posted. I played it, and it did just that.
That one drops in place because the strength and points of support basically all vanished (by obvious and loud explosive) at or around the same instant, from top to bottom, making a vertical, standing stack of material with nothing holding it up anymore. So...down it goes. Straight down, with nothing to direct it otherwise.
The above camera angle of the tower falling, also caught something else, by chance. It's an important if accidental detail. Just after the top floors give way and start the downward collapse, there is an object in free fall, and totally removed from anything else to fall in open air, to the left of the building. The tower is falling much slower in visual perception, than what is in free gravity descent right next to it.
Anyway.. I'm happy to step back from this debate, and I did at TOS too, largely because when I start asking for hard proof of reason to suspect this theory, or that one, the stock response seemed to be attack and ridicule as someone following the official story.
Well... No... I don't buy a number of things about that morning by the official story. I just don't doubt my own eyes, and the experience I know I trust from people who were on site, in the rubble and coughing on the dust at Ground Zero in the time following the first day.
I know you can be open to other ideas..so let me share a big reason I consider the "theories" of many people to be paranoid delusion by having no basis. None.
You know I work with disabled students at college, I presume. I mention it here occasionally, where it fits in with a topic. My specialty, it seems, is working with the Blind.
One of the first students I had was a very special young woman who had something of a role model she looked up to in the disabled community. She didn't share that with me until toward the end, but I was quite surprised (given I worked at TOS then) to see who it was, and why.
The blind gentlemen who belongs to that beautiful dog on the picture is Michael Hingson. He was 51yrs old when he found himself, entirely blind, and on the 78th floor of the North Tower. He's still alive today, and elevators weren't working ..so you can imagine what makes that brave dog there so very special. Roselle guided Michael down 78 floors of stairwell, in what is perpetual total darkness to his perception of things. The North Tower fell behind him, just after he cleared the building and crossed the street.
If there had been a chain of explosions? Of all the people that day, that would have heard it and recognized the distinct pattern to sound, and likely meaning of it? That man would have. He heard what everyone else heard. An Ungodly roar as the North Tower full onto itself, and fewer people than I think he'll ever care to consider on the floor he started on, didn't share his success in ever reaching outside air again. I admit..I still can't read the account of what Roselle did for her owner, without choking up. Roselle passed away in June of 2011, having done more than I think anyone would expect a service animal to accomplish.
Anyway... This and Fukushima are subjects I'm 'Just the facts...' with. Perhaps because so many just suspend the need for fact when this comes up, it's almost a special position for that reason alone.
Roselle – A Sad Day (Some might find it silly, to get choked up over a dog I've never known...but that dog showed more humanity that morning than most humans I've encountered during this life)