Alternate history: Southern Victory Timeline

bonhommearmonica
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Alternate history: Southern Victory Timeline Dec 22, 2014 0:30:37 GMT -6

Quote

Post by bonhommearmonica on Dec 22, 2014 0:30:37 GMT -6

I choose this because

1) civil War is usually the most popular one

2) the collaborative part is the hard part

So before we begin

We need to establish conditions that A southern Civil war victory would exist in

Factors
Economics
Agitation
Social factions
Power plays

Other nations influences

_

Besides all of this we have entropy interfering
As one studies history we run into an issue

we are lucky to know who won

the why and how.. a lot less of a sure thing

Take the Confederate Secret Service
How much do you know about them

_

In my own thinking
The south had only a few set of options

1) Attack the north with a complete invasion early in the war

2) You are going to need the damn slave to fight or serve lower level billet positions

3) Assassinations will have to be done

4) some CSA leaders have to go
Jefferson Davis is key on the list

_

Points of divergence

Start of the War

Political leaders

Dead or live Generals

Different tactics

Different governments get involved

_

So lets collaborate

HH's Plank Owner

A Jester and a Throwback: By their own bootstraps

bonhommearmonica Sargento Primero Writer Magna Cum Laude I love it when a plan comes together Posts: 1,138	Alternate history: Southern Victory Timeline Dec 22, 2014 0:32:43 GMT -6 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by bonhommearmonica on Dec 22, 2014 0:32:43 GMT -6 Are we leaving out time travel Are we including time travel Do we start the Timeline in the future Our TL A lot of question Do you want to include magic Superheroes...
	HH's Plank Owner A Jester and a Throwback: By their own bootstraps

HarbingerOfShadows
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Posts: 42

Alternate history: Southern Victory Timeline Dec 22, 2014 0:53:15 GMT -6 bonhommearmonica likes this

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Post by HarbingerOfShadows on Dec 22, 2014 0:53:15 GMT -6

This might help give you some ideas.

Though I'll disagree with it and say the South would've most likely thrown in with Hitler during World War 2.

Last Edit: Dec 22, 2014 0:56:06 GMT -6 by HarbingerOfShadows

“No one is an unjust villain in his own mind. Even - perhaps even especially - those who are the worst of us. Some of the cruelest tyrants in history were motivated by noble ideals, or made choices that they would call 'hard but necessary steps' for the good of their nation. We're all the hero of our own story.”
― Jim Butcher, Turn Coat

Doug
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Alternate history: Southern Victory Timeline Dec 22, 2014 9:31:52 GMT -6 bonhommearmonica likes this

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Post by Doug on Dec 22, 2014 9:31:52 GMT -6

I replied in the other thread. I give you Harry Turtledove, who considered to be the master of alternative histories.

From Wikipedia

Southern Victory
The Confederacy wins the American Civil War in 1862 with the help with the United Kingdom and France. It operates as an independent nation into the mid-20th century. (The name above is used by fans; the overall series has no official title.)

How Few Remain (1997)
The Great War trilogy
American Front (1998)
Walk in Hell (1999)
Breakthroughs (2000)
The American Empire trilogy
Blood and Iron (2001)
The Center Cannot Hold (2002)
The Victorious Opposition (2003)
The Settling Accounts tetralogy
Return Engagement (2004)
Drive to the East (2005)
The Grapple (2006)
In at the Death (2007)

War Between the Provinces
This fantasy series is based heavily on the American Civil War, except magic exists, the roles of the North and South have been reversed, and blond-haired serfs are featured rather than slaves.

Sentry Peak (2000)
Marching Through Peachtree (2001)
Advance and Retreat (2002)
And one stand alone book.

The Guns of the South (1992) Science Fiction/Alternate History — The Confederate Army is supplied with AK-47s by time travelling members of the Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging from the early 21st century and win the Civil War.

Some of his work is dry, but much of it is great reading.

Last Edit: Dec 22, 2014 9:37:27 GMT -6 by Doug

Beware the man who has one gun, he probably knows how to use it.

bonhommearmonica
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Writer Magna Cum Laude

I love it when a plan comes together

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Alternate history: Southern Victory Timeline Dec 22, 2014 12:23:15 GMT -6

Quote

Post by bonhommearmonica on Dec 22, 2014 12:23:15 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2014 0:53:15 GMT -6 HarbingerOfShadows said:

This might help give you some ideas.

Though I'll disagree with it and say the South would've most likely thrown in with Hitler during World War 2.

I watched this a long time ago

I thought it was funny but a bit tongue in cheek..

I am not so sure over the point of them joining Nazi germany..
there might not be a Nazi Germany

World War One in a confederate victory might be different
way different

depends on which butterflys exist

HH's Plank Owner

A Jester and a Throwback: By their own bootstraps

bonhommearmonica
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Writer Magna Cum Laude

I love it when a plan comes together

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Alternate history: Southern Victory Timeline Dec 22, 2014 12:30:11 GMT -6 Doug likes this

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Post by bonhommearmonica on Dec 22, 2014 12:30:11 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2014 9:31:52 GMT -6 Doug said:

I replied in the other thread. I give you Harry Turtledove, who considered to be the master of alternative histories.

From Wikipedia

Southern Victory
The Confederacy wins the American Civil War in 1862 with the help with the United Kingdom and France. It operates as an independent nation into the mid-20th century. (The name above is used by fans; the overall series has no official title.)

How Few Remain (1997)
The Great War trilogy
American Front (1998)
Walk in Hell (1999)
Breakthroughs (2000)
The American Empire trilogy
Blood and Iron (2001)
The Center Cannot Hold (2002)
The Victorious Opposition (2003)
The Settling Accounts tetralogy
Return Engagement (2004)
Drive to the East (2005)
The Grapple (2006)
In at the Death (2007)

War Between the Provinces
This fantasy series is based heavily on the American Civil War, except magic exists, the roles of the North and South have been reversed, and blond-haired serfs are featured rather than slaves.

Sentry Peak (2000)
Marching Through Peachtree (2001)
Advance and Retreat (2002)
And one stand alone book.

The Guns of the South (1992) Science Fiction/Alternate History — The Confederate Army is supplied with AK-47s by time travelling members of the Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging from the early 21st century and win the Civil War.

Some of his work is dry, but much of it is great reading.

The series starting with how few remain and ending with the US occupping the Nazi like south
(FREEDOM)

the POD (point of Divergence) was lee's order 191

It is why they list it as TL 191

The guns of the south was pretty cool
especially when the Afrikaner tried to take over the south only to lose

I do not see Lee being able to to the I win thing at all even if he won the battle of Gettysburg
The North was rolling at that point on production
Lee was short on men and supplies

HH's Plank Owner

A Jester and a Throwback: By their own bootstraps

bonhommearmonica
Sargento Primero

Writer Magna Cum Laude

I love it when a plan comes together

Posts: 1,138

Alternate history: Southern Victory Timeline Dec 22, 2014 12:40:02 GMT -6

Quote

Post by bonhommearmonica on Dec 22, 2014 12:40:02 GMT -6

So what should be the first point of divergence

We can go with a child not dying in a railroad accident
Leaving us with a better president
(Franklin Pierce??? more active)

or we can go with
the south losing the first battle of manassas

Or I can go with a side ways version of my story
Confederate Grey: Song of the South

HH's Plank Owner

A Jester and a Throwback: By their own bootstraps

HarbingerOfShadows
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Töte deinen Namen.

Posts: 42

Alternate history: Southern Victory Timeline Dec 23, 2014 4:54:27 GMT -6 via mobile bonhommearmonica and Doug like this

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Post by HarbingerOfShadows on Dec 23, 2014 4:54:27 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2014 12:30:11 GMT -6 bonhommearmonica said:

Dec 22, 2014 9:31:52 GMT -6 Doug said:

I replied in the other thread. I give you Harry Turtledove, who considered to be the master of alternative histories.

From Wikipedia

Southern Victory
The Confederacy wins the American Civil War in 1862 with the help with the United Kingdom and France. It operates as an independent nation into the mid-20th century. (The name above is used by fans; the overall series has no official title.)

How Few Remain (1997)
The Great War trilogy
American Front (1998)
Walk in Hell (1999)
Breakthroughs (2000)
The American Empire trilogy
Blood and Iron (2001)
The Center Cannot Hold (2002)
The Victorious Opposition (2003)
The Settling Accounts tetralogy
Return Engagement (2004)
Drive to the East (2005)
The Grapple (2006)
In at the Death (2007)

War Between the Provinces
This fantasy series is based heavily on the American Civil War, except magic exists, the roles of the North and South have been reversed, and blond-haired serfs are featured rather than slaves.

Sentry Peak (2000)
Marching Through Peachtree (2001)
Advance and Retreat (2002)
And one stand alone book.

The Guns of the South (1992) Science Fiction/Alternate History — The Confederate Army is supplied with AK-47s by time travelling members of the Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging from the early 21st century and win the Civil War.

Some of his work is dry, but much of it is great reading.

The series starting with how few remain and ending with the US occupping the Nazi like south
(FREEDOM)

the POD (point of Divergence) was lee's order 191

It is why they list it as TL 191

The guns of the south was pretty cool
especially when the Afrikaner tried to take over the south only to lose

I do not see Lee being able to to the I win thing at all even if he won the battle of Gettysburg
The North was rolling at that point on production
Lee was short on men and supplies

Well, had they managed to get English or French support would've most likely dramatically changed things.

“No one is an unjust villain in his own mind. Even - perhaps even especially - those who are the worst of us. Some of the cruelest tyrants in history were motivated by noble ideals, or made choices that they would call 'hard but necessary steps' for the good of their nation. We're all the hero of our own story.”
― Jim Butcher, Turn Coat

Doug
Teniente

I still don't know where life is taking me, but I'm still enjoying the ride!

Posts: 2,315

Alternate history: Southern Victory Timeline Dec 23, 2014 10:47:28 GMT -6 bonhommearmonica likes this

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Post by Doug on Dec 23, 2014 10:47:28 GMT -6

I like the idea of collaborative writing and agree that it would be hard. It takes bands months to co-write songs and those only last minutes. Obviously it takes a lot of communication and patience.

This is how I think it should be approached. The authors must agree on the genre first of all, along with a general outline of the story and end result. As the story progresses, instead of posting immediately, each contributor submits their part of the story to the others first through the message board or email for critique/editing and must be agreed by all before being added. There will always be a hurt feeling or two at this point, but I think it would be all for the better in the long run as long as it isn't taken personal, but rather a learning experience.

I've been thinking about getting back into the writing game again after a long dry spell and I do like the Alternative History idea very much. (All fiction is set in a Alternative History/Universe after all to a degree.)

Here is a idea I've ruminated about for some time. What if Gen. Smedley Butler did overthrow the US Gov't instead of reporting on the plot?

Here's a bit about that incident from Wiki.

In 1933, he became involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot, when he told a congressional committee that a group of wealthy industrialists were planning a military coup to overthrow Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler selected to lead a march of veterans to become dictator, similar to other Fascist regimes at that time. The individuals involved all denied the existence of a plot and the media ridiculed the allegations. A final report by a special House of Representatives Committee confirmed some of Butler's testimony.

Gen Butler became quite the activist and wrote the book, "War is a Racket".

Beware the man who has one gun, he probably knows how to use it.

HarbingerOfShadows
Soldado

Töte deinen Namen.

Posts: 42

Alternate history: Southern Victory Timeline Dec 23, 2014 14:06:49 GMT -6 via mobile bonhommearmonica and Doug like this

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Post by HarbingerOfShadows on Dec 23, 2014 14:06:49 GMT -6

Dec 23, 2014 10:47:28 GMT -6 Doug said:

I like the idea of collaborative writing and agree that it would be hard. It takes bands months to co-write songs and those only last minutes. Obviously it takes a lot of communication and patience.

This is how I think it should be approached. The authors must agree on the genre first of all, along with a general outline of the story and end result. As the story progresses, instead of posting immediately, each contributor submits their part of the story to the others first through the message board or email for critique/editing and must be agreed by all before being added. There will always be a hurt feeling or two at this point, but I think it would be all for the better in the long run as long as it isn't taken personal, but rather a learning experience.

I've been thinking about getting back into the writing game again after a long dry spell and I do like the Alternative History idea very much. (All fiction is set in a Alternative History/Universe after all to a degree.)

Here is a idea I've ruminated about for some time. What if Gen. Smedley Butler did overthrow the US Gov't instead of reporting on the plot?

Here's a bit about that incident from Wiki.

In 1933, he became involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot, when he told a congressional committee that a group of wealthy industrialists were planning a military coup to overthrow Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler selected to lead a march of veterans to become dictator, similar to other Fascist regimes at that time. The individuals involved all denied the existence of a plot and the media ridiculed the allegations. A final report by a special House of Representatives Committee confirmed some of Butler's testimony.

Gen Butler became quite the activist and wrote the book, "War is a Racket".

Sounds like how the federation ala Starship Troopers movie started.

“No one is an unjust villain in his own mind. Even - perhaps even especially - those who are the worst of us. Some of the cruelest tyrants in history were motivated by noble ideals, or made choices that they would call 'hard but necessary steps' for the good of their nation. We're all the hero of our own story.”
― Jim Butcher, Turn Coat

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Alternate history: Southern Victory Timeline

Post by bonhommearmonica on Dec 22, 2014 0:30:37 GMT -6

Post by bonhommearmonica on Dec 22, 2014 0:32:43 GMT -6

Post by HarbingerOfShadows on Dec 22, 2014 0:53:15 GMT -6

Post by Doug on Dec 22, 2014 9:31:52 GMT -6

Post by bonhommearmonica on Dec 22, 2014 12:23:15 GMT -6

Post by bonhommearmonica on Dec 22, 2014 12:30:11 GMT -6

Post by bonhommearmonica on Dec 22, 2014 12:40:02 GMT -6

Post by HarbingerOfShadows on Dec 23, 2014 4:54:27 GMT -6

Post by Doug on Dec 23, 2014 10:47:28 GMT -6

Post by HarbingerOfShadows on Dec 23, 2014 14:06:49 GMT -6